Which way do you push the undercover when you get in? I ask this because I've tried both with varying degrees of success.
First, let me explain left/right. If I stand at the foot end, looking toward the head, the knee section is to my left and the head tie out (short bungee) is to my right.
If I push the undercover to my left, I find that the head section pulls a bit toward center so that when I get in, the short bungee is under a fair amount of tension. This pulls the head tie out down, collapsing the bug netting onto my face.
If I push the undercover to my right so that the long bungee is under tension, I manage to keep the bug netting off my face (I'm a left side sleeper) but my right shoulder is a bit exposed.
I've gone back to pushing the undercover to the left, rotating 180 degrees as I sit and then the foot section snaps back into place fairly easily. I wish I could figure out a better way to adjust the torso placement.
That said, the system appears to work reasonably well. On a recent trip to northern Minnesota in JULY, a nearby town reported a low of 40 F. I don't know if it got that cold where I was but it was definitely in the mid to high 40s. I slept in a thermal underwear (REI), socks, a 32 Western Mountaineering summerlight sleeping bag, and the undercover system. I was fairly comfortable but I did have to pull the hood up on my bag and cinch it down.
FTW, are you asking about an underquilt like JRB", or KAQ, or about the HH SuperShelter? I'm not sure I am understanding your question if your asking about the SS.
Originally Posted by FreeTheWeasel
Because, when you ask "Which way do you push the undercover ", my answer is "neither". As far as I know, there is no "pushing" of the undercover to enter, since it has a slit that closely matches the bottom opening of the hammock. You open it in exactly the same way as you do the hammock and entry is unchanged with or without the undercover.
Now, if you mean "which way do I push the underpad", then I can answer that a little better, You do push the underpad to one side when entering, but it never occurred to me that there was more than one way possible to push it. Since the pad, correctly installed, should already automatically be lying at a diagonal, with the widest part somewhat to the left of center ( your left as you lay or sit in the HH) and the foot end definitely to the right of center ( as you face the HH footend). So, when you enter thru the bottom, there should only be one likely way to push it- to your left if you are standing facing the head of the HH, or to your right if you are standing or sitting facing the foot of the hammock. Then when your feet come in, it should snap back into proper diagonal position. But as you enter the hammock, facing the head, it should already be somewhat, though not completely, to the left of the entry slit( to the right if facing the foot end of the HH), so any pushing that needed to be done would be in that same direction.
I also don't understand the bug netting "collapsing". With mine, there is a slight tendency for the elastic on the undercover to bring the sides in, and the netting with it, but really not much. Do you have the side tie outs and side elastic running thru the openings on the undercover, all securely attached( including the elastic loops on the sides of the underpad) , and then staked out to the side and tied to the tarp side guyouts? Have you retied the side elastic so that you have a double or quadruple number of elastic lines going to the side guy out stakes? This is necessary to control the elastic on the undercover and keep the pad on the diagonal. Do you have a pretty tight pitch on you hammock suspension, to help control the netting?
Another thought re: collapsing the the netting: Might you have the undercover and/or underpad pulled TOO tight, with the elastic cords at the head or end attaching too far away frorm the hammock? Because, under normal conditions, this should attach to the prussick hook about in the same position it would be in if you have the stock tarp adjusted correctly. In fact, you are supposed to FIRST adjust the tarp and pruusicks correctly, THEN attach the undercover and pad to the prussick. If you are tieing to trees, you might be then adjusting the prussicks to tightly, causing the undercover side elastic to exert abnormal tension on the hammock, trying to narrow it more than usual. Although, feel free to adjust these tensions as needed to hank correctly, which would be with the oad just touching your back and wrapping around you as you lie down. If you add clothing to the undercover or pad, you might have to tighten a bit to keep them from sagging away from you back. But if you have to tighten way more than normal, it may cause netting problems.
Just grasping at straws here for an idea about the cause of the net problem. If this last was the case(too tight), it might also make it sleep cold, from the underpad being too tight against the bottom of the hammock and compressing the OCF. Although, if you were warm at 40* ( without space blanket? without extra kidney/torso pads?) you are about in the ball park. You said you had to tighten the bag hood- did you notice a cold back side or cold spots under you?
Apologies in advance, because I suspect I have completely misunderstood your question.
Don't worry about misunderstanding my question. I am often confused and this makes its way onto the page despite my best intentions
You are correct. I do mean the underpad, not undercover. Sorry about that.
I also agree that, when installed correctly, the foot section of the underpad will lie along the left side of the entrance slit as you face the head of the hammock.
I have the elastic looped on itself so that it forms a bundle of four lines. I use simple cord to tie the elastic bundle to the stake.
The problem I have is that when I enter the hammock, my weight pushes the underpad toward the center. This puts tension on the short bungee cord at the head end of the pad. This pulls the tieout down, creating a fold in the hammock fabric. This allows the netting to flop in toward the center, as if I had not staked the tieout down with sufficient tension.
I tried pushing the underpad to the right before entering, basically stretching the long bungee (unnaturally I might add). This kept the head section biased toward the right edge (again, standing at the foot looking up), but this left my opposite shoulder exposed.
I may have too much tension on the undercover/underpad combination from the prussick knots. I'll try loosening them. I don't use the stock tarp which gives me lots of room to pull on the sliders. I usually center the hammock within the undercover so that the fabric of the undercover just covers the fabric covering the hammock knots, which I wouldn't have expected to be too much tension, but I'll try it.
Because I tend to sleep on my left side on as much as a diagonal as possible, I have my face right near the edge. When the side gathers in a bit, the net lands on my face. It isn't really much of an issue. I can position my hand to push the fabric away and I sleep better than I do in a bed regardless.
When it got cold and I had the sleeping bag hood cinched down, I was occasionally cool but nothing I really noticed. I can't remember what areas felt cold so it couldn't have been too bad. I think with a hat and perhaps some gloves, I could hit 40 easily. With extra padding, I'm sure I could get to 32 which is probably the limit of the bag anyway.
Thanks for the reply.
I don't think I have really had the problem you mention, at least not to the extent you are. I hope it turns out to be be too much tension on the head and foot end "bungees", that would be easy to deal with.
I would put my SS on and experiment to see if I could recreate your experience, but it's 104 dang degrees out, and I can't stand the though of any insulation on the bottom! I think I would burst into spontaneous combustion! Good luck on your experimenting.
I have found that the more you have avaiable to hang over the ridgeline, the wider open it seems to stay. Pads also help to open up the hammock.
You might call TH and spell out your problem to him. He would probably know the answer.
FWIW, my experience is exactly the same as BillyBob's --- standing at the foot end, facing the head end, I stand with the hammock to my left, and push the underpad to the left of the opening to get in. Never had anything like the bug netting collapsing on me.
Weasel, I'm afraid I just don't quite understand the explanation of what's happening to you. It's not that I don't have problems with the hammock (!), I just haven't had this particular one ...