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  1. #91
    Senior Member Mouseskowitz's Avatar
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    I'm no expert, but it sounds like that timing is off. I know I've seen things on how to time the old singers. Sounds like you need to find a shop manual that has that for your machine.

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    Normally timing is not off, but that certainly sounds like the problem. Do make sure the needle flat is turned the correct way and that the bobbin hook is smooth and polished.

    Generally a machine should be timed so the bobbin hook point centers on the needle just after it starts back up from bottom dead center. The needle has to raise just enough for a loop to form in the thread for the hook to catch. This is adjusted on the machines I am familiar with by loosening a set screw or clamp holding the needle bar so the needle bar can be moved up or down a bit to change the timing.

  3. #93
    ErickSaint's Avatar
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    I'm almost certain it has to do with the timing, just no idea how to do it.

    Here is a closeup. This is after the needle goes to the bottom of its stroke and its starting to come back up as the hook is coming around. I can try to shoot some video if that helps.

    I know that thread is at an extreme angle coming out of the right, but the results are the same no matter the angle. I needed to tie off the thread taut because I shoot these macro shots with a manual focus lens, so needed both hands on the camera.




  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErickSaint View Post
    If I leave a little slack in the thread it will hook sometimes, other times it would barely catch or fray the thread, twist it, never worked properly.

    Now all this is with the needle seated all the way up into the carrier, as per the instructions in the manual. It appeared that the needle needs to come a bit lower. To test this I just seated the needle a bit shy of all the way in. It picked up the thread and carried it around every time. But I'm guessing for proper operation it needs to be seated all the way.

    Which begs the question, how do I lower that just a touch so that both the thread and needle are in the proper places? The book doesn't touch on this at all.

    The needle being used to test this is the needle that was in the machine from all those years ago, so guessing that it was the proper needle and something just went out of whack over time.
    EDIT: I was slow typing; you have most of the answers already!


    A couple of things before you adjust anything:
    -Check that you do indeed have the correct size needle in the machine- I saw a chart online somewhere with the dimensions of different needle types. I recall that your machine is a White Rotary type? You'll need new needles of various gauges anyway. I put a new needle in the machine often - a small burr or hook (which you can feel with a fingernail, usually) or other needle problem will cause lots of grief.
    -Is the needle inserted correctly into the needle bar? On your machine, I think the flat should be facing right - toward the bobbin.
    -Is the machine properly threaded? Again, I think that your machine needs the thread to go from left to right through the eye....but you should check with your manual.

    If all those things are OK, then you probably need to adjust the 'needle bar height'. There are videos (the one I found was pretty shaky...) on YouTube for 'adjusting needle bar'.

    This link has some pretty clear info:
    http://autonopedia.org/crafts-and-te...#needle_timing
    I don't know if you have a service manual for your machine yet, but obviously that would be the place to go.
    I'd definitely check the needle bar height before messing with the hook timing BTW.

    You are making good progress!

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErickSaint View Post
    Here is a closeup. This is after the needle goes to the bottom of its stroke and its starting to come back up as the hook is coming around. I can try to shoot some video if that helps.
    Excellent pics!

    A few more thoughts-
    The upper thread shouldn't be pulled tight when you are trying to pick up the bobbin thread, IMO- just hold the end of the upper thread with some slack. In normal sewing, the fabric 'grabs' the thread as the needle retracts, leaving a loop hanging for the bobbin hook to snare.

    The needle plate helps to guide the thread a bit; try replacing it.

    What sort of thread are you using? Problems with the thread unlaying/fraying can be because of old or improper thread. Of course the close-up makes any bit of fuzz more prominent.

    Even with a machine that's working well, I often have to try a couple of turns to get the bobbin thread pulled up - the first 'pass' can miss sometimes.

  6. #96
    ErickSaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VictoriaGuy View Post
    EDIT: I was slow typing; you have most of the answers already!


    A couple of things before you adjust anything:
    -Check that you do indeed have the correct size needle in the machine- I saw a chart online somewhere with the dimensions of different needle types. I recall that your machine is a White Rotary type? You'll need new needles of various gauges anyway. I put a new needle in the machine often - a small burr or hook (which you can feel with a fingernail, usually) or other needle problem will cause lots of grief.
    -Is the needle inserted correctly into the needle bar? On your machine, I think the flat should be facing right - toward the bobbin.
    -Is the machine properly threaded? Again, I think that your machine needs the thread to go from left to right through the eye....but you should check with your manual.

    If all those things are OK, then you probably need to adjust the 'needle bar height'. There are videos (the one I found was pretty shaky...) on YouTube for 'adjusting needle bar'.

    This link has some pretty clear info:
    http://autonopedia.org/crafts-and-te...#needle_timing
    I don't know if you have a service manual for your machine yet, but obviously that would be the place to go.
    I'd definitely check the needle bar height before messing with the hook timing BTW.

    You are making good progress!
    I do need to pick up new needles for sure. Yes, a rotary machine made by White for Kenmore, I read online they are 15x1 needles, when I was at JoAnn's I couldn't find any Schmetz needles with that number on them so I didn't pick any up.

    Needle is flat to the right as per the book, and threaded properly according to the book and a couple vids I found, including one by TZBrown.

    I don't have the service manual, was looking but seemed to be coming up blank.

    Thanks for the link, and the proper terminology, I should hopefully be able to find some answers there.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by VictoriaGuy View Post
    ...What sort of thread are you using? Problems with the thread unlaying/fraying can be because of old or improper thread. Of course the close-up makes any bit of fuzz more prominent...
    That is some pretty fuzzy looking thread.

    Erick...I may have read one of your posts a bit wrong. Have you tried running the machine and stitching with it or are you assuming there's a problem because of the difficulty in initially bringing the bottom thread up? Get better thread and try stitching before you change the needle bar timing.

  8. #98
    ErickSaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VictoriaGuy View Post
    Excellent pics!

    A few more thoughts-
    The upper thread shouldn't be pulled tight when you are trying to pick up the bobbin thread, IMO- just hold the end of the upper thread with some slack. In normal sewing, the fabric 'grabs' the thread as the needle retracts, leaving a loop hanging for the bobbin hook to snare.

    The needle plate helps to guide the thread a bit; try replacing it.

    What sort of thread are you using? Problems with the thread unlaying/fraying can be because of old or improper thread. Of course the close-up makes any bit of fuzz more prominent.

    Even with a machine that's working well, I often have to try a couple of turns to get the bobbin thread pulled up - the first 'pass' can miss sometimes.
    To be honest that thread was just some stuff that was in the box of attachments from my mom. Probably 20 years old, but it was brand new with the plastic still on it, LOL. I know that's still bad. I have some Guterman sew-all in the car, but keep forgetting to bring it in, SO I was just using that thread to see if I could get the bobbin threaded.

  9. #99
    ErickSaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    That is some pretty fuzzy looking thread.

    Erick...I may have read one of your posts a bit wrong. Have you tried running the machine and stitching with it or are you assuming there's a problem because of the difficulty in initially bringing the bottom thread up? Get better thread and try stitching before you change the needle bar timing.
    I haven't actually tried sewing anything yet since I don't have the cabinet here, and the spring is kinda heavy in the knee switch, I need to rig up a way to not need two hands to operate the switch.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErickSaint View Post
    ...I read online they are 15x1 needles, when I was at JoAnn's I couldn't find any Schmetz needles with that number on them so I didn't pick any up....
    Schmetz are listed as 130/705 which is the same as 15x1. Welcome to the confusion.

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