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  1. #21
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaloO View Post
    My idea was to buy one of these, cut it in two pieces and put the UCR through it... this has to take a load of the bark, what you think?
    I don't think it would help all that much. What straps do is distribute the force across the width of the strap, resulting in less pressure per square cm than a rope would cause. Running a rope through a strap would not redistribute the force very much at all, with most of it still concentrated along the centerline of the rope. (IMHO)

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TiredFeet View Post
    I'm still not entirely clear on how long you make the buried portion?

    If that isn't proprietary, could you post the length you use for for the buried portion? I believe that's what you refer to as the constrictor section. That's a better term than buried portion.
    The buried portion is roughly 12" long... but like I said, it doesn't have the same dynamics, nor does it work the same as a whoopie sling. The buried section (static line) is different from the constrictor section. The constrictor section is the outer sheath that slides over the static section. I gave you the static line lenght.

    -ZA

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by caboyer View Post
    I don't think it would help all that much. What straps do is distribute the force across the width of the strap, resulting in less pressure per square cm than a rope would cause. Running a rope through a strap would not redistribute the force very much at all, with most of it still concentrated along the centerline of the rope. (IMHO)
    You are correct. If you are worried about the bark on the tree, you should use tree huggers like everyone else and simply attach the UCR to the hugger using the static line eye loop as a choker.

    -ZA

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by caboyer View Post
    Yup... that's how it works... in general.

    -ZA

  5. #25
    Senior Member BaloO's Avatar
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    I fell that I have to ask this, is it a real problem with ropes? has there been any research done that rope damages the bark? Is there any proof?

    Why is there no complaints about tape like the ones from DD? They are tied to the tree aswell... I guess that treehuggers make some strain to the tree to.

    I dont want to be "barking" up the wrong tree... But I think it has to come out to the open, we cant blame ropes for tree damage if there is no research behind it....
    www.fogelberg.info

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  6. #26
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaloO View Post
    has there been any research done that rope damages the bark? Is there any proof?
    I can't point you cited research sources but.. to my understanding, there is indeed plenty of evidence that ropes _can_ damage _some_ trees. Some trees are more susceptible than others having a very soft bark or a very soft cambria layer. From my conversations with a forester I was told the problems are two fold. Damaged bark can lead to insect infestation which can damage the tree. But perhaps the more critical and less observable damage, at least by the untrained eye, is the compression of the cambria layer directly under the bark. This layer is where the nutirents for the trees growth are actively being transported. It is very soft and easily compressed. Once compressed the flow of nutrients is restricted or blocked entirely. Once compressed it does not recover very well.

    Ropes have a very small point of contact with the tree directing all the pressure into that one small line of contact. Straps have a much broader contact point which spreads the same force over a larger area thus reducing the pressure per square inch. Think snow shoes.... The human foot will posthole into soft snow, but when the same weight is spread around, the person remains on top of the same snow.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member BaloO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post
    I can't point you cited research sources but.. to my understanding, there is indeed plenty of evidence that ropes _can_ damage _some_ trees. Some trees are more susceptible than others having a very soft bark or a very soft cambria layer. From my conversations with a forester I was told the problems are two fold. Damaged bark can lead to insect infestation which can damage the tree. But perhaps the more critical and less observable damage, at least by the untrained eye, is the compression of the cambria layer directly under the bark. This layer is where the nutirents for the trees growth are actively being transported. It is very soft and easily compressed. Once compressed the flow of nutrients is restricted or blocked entirely. Once compressed it does not recover very well.

    Ropes have a very small point of contact with the tree directing all the pressure into that one small line of contact. Straps have a much broader contact point which spreads the same force over a larger area thus reducing the pressure per square inch. Think snow shoes.... The human foot will posthole into soft snow, but when the same weight is spread around, the person remains on top of the same snow.
    I understand the pressure point being smaller with the rope, but my theoretical solution with the straps I posted earlier should solve this since they are padded on the inside....

    That some trees are more sensetive I also understand, but some research would be nice..

    Please understand I'm not posting this to make enemies, I think it's an interesting subject, thats all.
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  8. #28
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaloO View Post
    I understand the pressure point being smaller with the rope, but my theoretical solution with the straps I posted earlier should solve this since they are padded on the inside....
    Use the snow shoe analogy... if you just attached loose webbing to your feet you would still post hole. There is no resistance to support the weight to the edges. If you just run the rope through a tube there is no structure to further distribute the weight beyond a slightly larger arc of contact. The webbing flattens the pressure out because it distributes the pressure evenly across the face surface of the webbing.

    I'm not trying to make enemies either. Just reporting what I have been told by those who are supposed to know.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  9. #29
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZA206 View Post
    You are correct. If you are worried about the bark on the tree, you should use tree huggers like everyone else and simply attach the UCR to the hugger using the static line eye loop as a choker.

    -ZA
    Just to clarify, I *do* use tree straps.

  10. #30
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    As an arborist, I think I may be able to shed a bit of light on the subject. I climb trees all day and my rope sits and slides and runs through many crotches in a given tree, and over the years I've been back up in trees I've climbed before and not seen any residual damage to the tree.
    That said; I do use a type of strap called a Cambium Saver on very thin-barked trees such as Beech, Maples, and Pines. But other than those few, anything with bark over 1/2"-3/4" or so is IMPO (in my professional opinion), quite fine for running rope over, given that it's not tiny, like 7/64" Amsteel Blue or something.

    Hope that's a bit clearer than mud...
    Acer

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