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  1. #111
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downhill Trucker View Post
    I'm really interested in the whoopie sling or UCR suspension systems. I am a little lost on how they work and if it is something I want to fool around with.

    Currently, I use the ring buckle suspension with carabiners. I love the ease of initial setup and the adjustability of this system. To me the only drawback is weight as I have long straps to accomodate my trips out west (big trees) and biners cause it's just so darned easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downhill Trucker View Post
    Are either of these systems lighter than the ring buckle setup?
    Both are considerably lighter, probably less than half the weight. TeeDee has our whoopie sling system down to 4.60 oz now and could easily shave that down to 4.5 or 4.4 oz when he's confident enough to start cutting excess rope. If we use rope instead of webbing for the tree huggers, then we can get that down to about 4 oz. Could get under 4 oz if we didn't like really long huggers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Downhill Trucker View Post
    Are they adjustable like the ring buckle system?
    yes and in my experience easier to adjust than the ring buckle system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Downhill Trucker View Post
    Are they easy to setup like my current system (which involves clip biner, adjust ring buckle, and throw in a half hitch)?
    easier and no half-hitch needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Downhill Trucker View Post
    Thanks for all of the info here. It's just a bit hard to understand because it's so much different than the other systems I've learned about. I do want to learn (as others do) because it seems this is the system that is on the forefront of hammock technology (whoopie and UCR).
    Either works great.

    Another thing about rope over webbing - bulk. Webbing is very bulky compared to rope.

  2. #112
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    Sounds like a Humpty Dumpty thing.

    It's a buried eye, that behaves like a slip knot or a marlinspike hitch at the end of a line. You bury the standing end instead of the running end.

    Here's a pic:


    This shows the running end of the static section exiting the constrictor's bury downward to the right. The toggle at the end of the constrictor section is the slipped eye.

    HTH
    If I'm seeing that right, then what I think you have done is to make a buried eye splice, only taking the tail end of the bury back out and ending it with a buried end. Isn't that the same as the adjustable loop on the Whoopie Sling? What am I missing here? It's frustrating
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  3. #113
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    If I'm seeing that right, then what I think you have done is to make a buried eye splice, only taking the tail end of the bury back out and ending it with a buried end. Isn't that the same as the adjustable loop on the Whoopie Sling? What am I missing here? It's frustrating
    Sorry 'bout that. Topologically they are identical. Functionally they are flip sides of the same coin. In the whoopie sling tension is applied to that part of the line that forms the outer bury. In what I did above, tension is applied to that part of the line that passes through the bury, forming a noose that slips tightly around my toggle.


    Edit: It occurs to me that you can picture the loop on the right as a mini whoopie sling, but with tension applied to the wrong side. Slip one of your whoopie slings over a post and pull on the adjustable end, with no tension on the bury. It should tighten like a noose around the post.

    Hope that's clearer. If not I can post a less ambiguous picture.
    - Frawg

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  4. #114
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Downhill Trucker - what Tired Feet said.

    If you are getting tired of hauling all of that webbing and hardware around and leave the webbing for rope and no hardware, you will always congratulate yourself.

    Using either the SLS that HeadChange4U invented, the SLS version I developed or the MSLS or any variation that uses the UCR or Whoopie Sling method is going to save you lots of weight over the webbing.

    Then using the Marlin Spike to connect to the webbing and you don't even need the carabiner anymore either or any hardware.

    Then if you want you can ditch the webbing altogether and use rope huggers and the method that Turk explained somewhere and you have lightened your load and have the nicest suspension system that I have used. Using the rope huggers and Turk's method takes more time for setup, but saves a lot of weight over the webbing huggers. If Turk is browsing, maybe he can be induced to expand on his method. Using the rope huggers I can drop the hugger weight from 2 oz to approximately 0.5 oz.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

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  5. #115
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    Sorry 'bout that. Topologically they are identical. Functionally they are flip sides of the same coin. In the whoopie sling tension is applied to that part of the line that forms the outer bury. In what I did above, tension is applied to that part of the line that passes through the bury, forming a noose that slips tightly around my toggle.


    Edit: It occurs to me that you can picture the loop on the right as a mini whoopie sling, but with tension applied to the wrong side. Slip one of your whoopie slings over a post and pull on the adjustable end, with no tension on the bury. It should tighten like a noose around the post.

    Hope that's clearer. If not I can post a less ambiguous picture.
    Okay , now I think I understand. What I'm not sure of is the terminal end bury - if it's what I think I'm understanding now, then the terminal end bury is the only thing keeping the loop from pulling open. The terminal end bury is stopped by the constrictor over the bury for the loop. Right.

    No - I don't think that's right either. Maybe I should just go and play with some rope and it will come clearer.

    Try again - I think now that the end bury is terminating the outside rope of the bury and not the buried portion.

    So the splice is working partly with a gripping action and partly to just keep the loop from pulling open. That way you don't need as much bury to get the gripping since you aren't really relying on that action.
    Last edited by TeeDee; 07-10-2009 at 17:07.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  6. #116
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    Okay , now I think I understand. What I'm not sure of is the terminal end bury - if it's what I think I'm understanding now, then the terminal end bury is the only thing keeping the loop from pulling open. The terminal end bury is stopped by the constrictor over the bury for the loop. Right.
    Now I'm confused!

    It's pretty simple, really -- just a slip knot, with a terminal end bury in place of an overhand knot. The backsplice (dangling down on the right) just keeps the braid from unravelling. I could just as well have melted the line instead. Constriction in the terminal bury holds everything together very tightly, once placed under load. It takes a concerted effort to remove the toggle, and I'm not sure one could remove a toggle that is not very smooth on the surface.

    - Frawg

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  7. #117
    Senior Member ikemouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    Downhill Trucker - what Tired Feet said.

    If you are getting tired of hauling all of that webbing and hardware around and leave the webbing for rope and no hardware, you will always congratulate yourself.

    Using either the SLS that HeadChange4U invented, the SLS version I developed or the MSLS or any variation that uses the UCR or Whoopie Sling method is going to save you lots of weight over the webbing.

    Then using the Marlin Spike to connect to the webbing and you don't even need the carabiner anymore either or any hardware.

    Then if you want you can ditch the webbing altogether and use rope huggers and the method that Turk explained somewhere and you have lightened your load and have the nicest suspension system that I have used. Using the rope huggers and Turk's method takes more time for setup, but saves a lot of weight over the webbing huggers. If Turk is browsing, maybe he can be induced to expand on his method. Using the rope huggers I can drop the hugger weight from 2 oz to approximately 0.5 oz.
    SO does anyone have a figure on how much weight could be saved on stock WBBB by employing the whoppie/ucr using no huggers or minimal huggers?

  8. #118
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikemouser View Post
    SO does anyone have a figure on how much weight could be saved on stock WBBB by employing the whoppie/ucr using no huggers or minimal huggers?
    2.4oz = 2 Whoopie slings made from 15ft each of 1/8th inch Amsteel Blue, not including huggers. Using 12ft each for the slings is plenty for most hangs, though.

    7.6oz = Standard BlackBird suspension (webbing, tri-rings, and amsteel) not including biners. I've not seen the Blackbird webbing used without biners, and the lightest pair I know of adds 1.65oz (the ones Brandon sells).

    Using a ring or cinch buckle suspension with heavier webbing than Warbonnet provides increases this more.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  9. #119
    Senior Member moski's Avatar
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    Great job everyone
    I had glance at this Whoopie sling threads some weeks ago,
    didn't find it that interesting then.

    Boy, was i wrong
    Jeezus, how much reading i had to put in, threads crossing each other all over.
    And the work i put in to reading is nothing , compared to what you guys have done.

    Im leaning more to the UCR method over the Whoopie sling method.
    As i understand it, it is possible to do both with Amsteel 7/64 ?
    As long as you have a long enough "bury", around 15 inch.

    I think i would like to have fixed eye splices on both ends and constractor
    thingy in between.
    Is't possible to splice a eye splice on Amsteel 7/64 without it slipping?

    Anything else i should think of?

    Anyone got hints of Alu rod supplier?


    Quote Originally Posted by ZA206 View Post
    I have a nice set of slema fids that I never use... I use a modified aluminum "standard solid" fid (not sure of the name) to make my UCR's. It makes life ALOT easier.
    -ZA
    Where did you get them?
    Last edited by moski; 07-23-2009 at 12:51.
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  10. #120
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moski View Post
    Great job everyone
    Im leaning more to the UCR method over the Whoopie sling method.
    As i understand it, it is possible to do both with Amsteel 7/64 ?
    As long as you have a long enough "bury", around 15 inch.
    Welcome to the dark side, moski!

    I used 7/64 for all my experimenting and have settled on that with UCRs. I have some 1/8 that I'll have a go with some time. The length of bury needed with the UCR depends on how much weight it'll have to hold and how tightly the 'loose' end is secured. I'm about 190# and allocate about 18" to the bury section, which ends up about 15" long after the static section is buried inside it.

    Edit: I'm implicity assuming here that the line comes off the tree at the 'usual' nominal 30 degree angle.

    Is't possible to splice a eye splice on Amsteel 7/64 without it slipping?
    I do it all the time, but be sure to stitch in some whipping line to secure the bury. Otherwise it can come loose when there's no tension on it.

    Anyone got hints of Alu rod supplier?
    I started out making toggles from 1/4" aluminum rod from Home Depot, but now just cannibalize some cheap (4 for $2) aluminum tent stakes. I can make 4 1-1/4" toggles from one stake.
    Last edited by Frawg; 07-23-2009 at 14:07.
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