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  1. #111
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Blush.......

  2. #112
    Senior Member bonsaihiker's Avatar
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    I've been resisting...nacrabiners look cool, would probably be fun to make, and apparently work well and are light, but "regularbiners" are just so easy to use....

    Resistance is, of course, futile on HF. These are now on my "when I finally get some free time DIY list."
    --Scott <><

    "I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful... because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience...." --Robert Traver

  3. #113
    sir_n0thing's Avatar
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    I just made my first "nacrabiner".
    "I know the feeling - It is the real thing - You can't refuse the embrace!" | "Go n-éirí an bóthar leat."

  4. #114
    WV's Avatar
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    I made a couple of them with dynaglide, using the bury I mentioned instead of the pass-through. I think it is true that will make it not quite as quick and easy to "open and close" the Nacrabiners, but there are places where I use a biner that I don't adjust very often, if at all. That's where I'll use these. I tapered both of the loose ends and buried them in each other to make another small loop. I'm not sure how I'll use it, and I'd guess it's not very strong, but it might come in handy and should prevent fraying. I found I could even out the two sides of the main loop before I really tightened down the knot, but not afterward. Thanks, nacra!

  5. #115
    Senior Member opie984's Avatar
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    WV, you should read Schneiderlein's results on page 11. If made properly, you don't have to worry about the nacrabiner failing before any other critical piece of suspension.

    Some of the rope heavy weights might want to "weigh" in on this question. I have read little blurbs here and there about not running Amsteel over a hard surface?? What is that about and would this be a concern when using my nacrabiners??

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by opie984 View Post
    Some of the rope heavy weights might want to "weigh" in on this question. I have read little blurbs here and there about not running Amsteel over a hard surface?? What is that about and would this be a concern when using my nacrabiners??
    Maybe the concern with hard surfaces that you read about is more related to abrasion. I ran the Amsteel over 3/4" diameter steel pins. I think the hardness may not be such a concern, but the diameter. I wonder how they would do with a sharp bend, e.g., when run through the end of a webbing loop. That would actually be a pretty good test, now that I think about it. If I do any more testing, I will include a test with a nacrabiner attached to a webbing loop.

  7. #117
    WV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opie984 View Post
    WV, you should read Schneiderlein's results on page 11. If made properly, you don't have to worry about the nacrabiner failing before any other critical piece of suspension.

    Thanks. I didn't make myself very clear. The loop I mentioned is an additional one - future function still to be determined - that's made by connecting the two free ends of the diamond knot with two 1/2" buries. It may end up being purely decorative, or I may run a 1" strip of absorbent fabric through it to see if it functions as a drip ring. I have no question about the strength of the main loop.

    Some of the rope heavy weights might want to "weigh" in on this question. I have read little blurbs here and there about not running Amsteel over a hard surface?? What is that about and would this be a concern when using my nacrabiners??
    Heavier amsteel that is sold to replace steel cables on power winches comes with the recommendation to replace the steel fairlead with one made of aluminum, but that's in an application with potentially lots of friction. I can't think of any hammock-related use of amsteel that would be similar.

  8. #118
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opie984 View Post
    WV, you should read Schneiderlein's results on page 11. If made properly, you don't have to worry about the nacrabiner failing before any other critical piece of suspension.

    Some of the rope heavy weights might want to "weigh" in on this question. I have read little blurbs here and there about not running Amsteel over a hard surface?? What is that about and would this be a concern when using my nacrabiners??
    It should not be a concern for camping use. It is very tough stuff. For example, notice how tough it is to cut fibers when tapering it for splicing. These, like just about everything else related to hammocks, are "wear" items. They will wear out eventually.

    Dyneema/Spectra has been used for years for tug boat lines. Check out the Samson Rope Commercial Marine site. Amsteel is the standard. It is wound around large winch drums. It is also used in off road vehicle winches as a lighter weight and safer alternative to cable. Since it has very little stretch, it has virtually no recoil and very little energy if it snaps, unlike steel cable.

    It is used all over sail boats from beachcats to racing yachts for just about everything except standing rigging and halyards (because of the creep). It's run through blocks under high load. Often a cover is added if winched, cleated, or jam cleated, but this is for reasons other than chafe. It is less heat resistant than other fibers, so it can melt under high load, high friction. It is slippery and small, so it often needs to be fattened up to jam cleat it. The "newer" engineered cordage like PBO, Aramid fibers like kevlar, and Carbon fiber rigging are replacing dyneema on the high end racing boats because you can engineer the exact properties you want for the application by blending these. Serious competition sailors (which I am not) are like SUL hikers. They will spend $$ to save a few ounces aloft.

    A lot of words to say I do not worry at all about chafe/abraision. Like any line, you need to inspect it before use and replace it before it becomes unsafe.

  9. #119
    Senior Member opie984's Avatar
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    okay, I just noticed that it seems to affect the rope, at least visually, when I place it through my eyebolts on my hammock stand. But there is no abrasion factor, just looping over a tight bend and hard surface.

    So I shouldn't worry about it in this application is what I am gathering from you guys comments??

    Schneiderlein, please let us know the results of the webbing test as I am planning to use my nacrabiners to attach my WS to my TH.

  10. #120
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opie984 View Post
    ...But there is no abrasion factor, just looping over a tight bend and hard surface.
    I'll just toss in here that the bend radius around a hard turn matters. IIRC, the recommended minimum bend radius is about 3 or 4 times the rope diameter.

    IMHO, the issue is that rope ratings presume an equitable distribution of load among all the fibers. Bending a rope under tension spreads the load unevenly among the fibers. Those on the outer edge of the bend carry more of the load than those at the inner edge of the bend. The tighter the bend, the more the disparity in loading.

    It would be interesting to see destructive testing of a fixed eye / nacrabiner connection, as in my earlier pictures.

    I don't feel uncomfortable about my use of the Amsteel like this, but it's just a gut instinct.
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