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  1. #101
    Senior Member Rug's Avatar
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    Ack, try as I might I can't get this thing to look correct. I keep getting a wide-flat knot, and not a ball knot.
    I ride a recumbent.
    I like to HAM it up on the CW.
    I use Linux.
    I play go.
    Of course I sleep in a hammock!

    Rug.

    Hang On!

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by nacra533 View Post
    As mentioned, the legs to not have to be equal, but I feel they need to be close, your testing may indicate otherwise.
    I think there is a big margin where the ultimate strength is unaffected. However, the amount of damage to the eye is affected by the balance of the legs. For the tight eye, the hole where the line passes through itself was opened up to about 1/2", and the braid was severely distorted. On the loosest one, I accidentally pulled the broken end out and removed the eye. There is no obvious damage to the rope where the splice was, and you have to look very carefully to even see where the splice was. The sample that I thought was just right and well balanced showed some minimal distortion at the splice.

    Two of the three samples I tested were intentionally biased, and the offsets were larger than what you would normally expect with any reasonable amount of care when making these. I think I would have to test a lot of samples to give you a real conclusion on how much an offset between the leg legs matters, since I suspect there is a lot of variability depending on how well the knot is set. If there is any conclusion from this limited testing, try not to make the eye too tight. In order to load both legs of the shackle, the hole where the rope passes through itself will be opened up in this case.

  3. #103
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    One more observation from the tensile tests: On one of the samples, I had put a short piece of heat-shrink tubing over the tails to keep them from fraying. The length of the tail was about 3/4". During the test, the heat shrink tubing was pushed off the tails and the tails were pulled into the knot by maybe 1/4". I would recommend to not cut the ends flush with the diamond knot, but leave a reasonably long tail after the knot.

  4. #104
    Senior Member opie984's Avatar
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    Schneiderlein, thanks a bunch! You have helped ease some of my worries about using these. I mean, 2800 lbf....the whoopies will break before these "nacrabiners" do.

    Also, I vote for calling them nacrabiners (NB)

  5. #105
    jhunt87's Avatar
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    Made my first nacrabiner last night. Very cool.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rug View Post
    Ack, try as I might I can't get this thing to look correct. I keep getting a wide-flat knot, and not a ball knot.
    I don't know if it will help you, but this is how I remember how to tie this knot.

    1. Always go clockwise.
    2. Start with the left tail and make a loop (clockwise) and bring the tail under the standing part.
    3. Now, weave in the right line. Start at the standing end of the left line going over, then under the tail, over the loop, under the right line, and finally over the loop again. Always clockwise, always over-under-over-under.
    4. For each of the two tails, go clockwise over the standing part and then under the whole mess and out the top.
    5. Set the knot and you are done.

    If you look at the wikipedia page, I hope the above might make some sense.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by opie984 View Post
    Schneiderlein, thanks a bunch! You have helped ease some of my worries about using these. I mean, 2800 lbf....the whoopies will break before these "nacrabiners" do.

    Also, I vote for calling them nacrabiners (NB)
    Nacrabiner sounds good to me. I did the tests because I was a bit worried about them myself. Glad I could ease your worries at the same time.

    I did not mention this, but I also tested a UCR, and that test did not ease my worries. The UCR was 7/64" Amsteel blue with a 12" bury. Without tension on the free end, the UCR kept slipping around 200 lbf, right around the load you might get in a hammock suspension, depending on weight of the occupant and the angle. By putting minimal force on the free end, I could easily load the UCR to 1,000 lbf, but when I let go of the free end, it immediately slipped. I think without a way to ensure there is some small load maintained on the free end, it is not a question of if, but when a UCR will let you down. I think I will stick with the WS and get some Dynaglide for weight savings instead of using a UCR.

  8. #108
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneiderlein View Post
    I don't know if it will help you, but this is how I remember how to tie this knot.

    1. Always go clockwise.
    2. Start with the left tail and make a loop (clockwise) and bring the tail under the standing part.
    3. Now, weave in the right line. Start at the standing end of the left line going over, then under the tail, over the loop, under the right line, and finally over the loop again. Always clockwise, always over-under-over-under.
    4. For each of the two tails, go clockwise over the standing part and then under the whole mess and out the top.
    5. Set the knot and you are done.
    This does help. I always got to the last part (4) and couldn't figure out which direction to go. Thanks for that. It does take some practice to get a pretty looking knot.


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    - Mark Twain
    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
    - John Burroughs

  9. #109
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    I just got it last night. I laid it out flat on the table to tie, but couldn't get it right until I started arranging the loops into a little ball before I tightened it. Like most knots, it can go wrong or right depending on how you finish setting it.


    S

  10. #110
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Stick the rope in your hand, then "magic" happens, and then you set the knot. That's how some of the video looked to me (and also it was hard to pause with one hand and have my kids watching over my shoulder too -- I don't like an audience when I'm struggling with something . Vanity).

    I found the pictures in wikipedia for how to tie the Carrick bend most helpful, as was suggested, and then figured the rest out. Basically a Carrick bend Plus.


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    - Mark Twain
    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
    - John Burroughs

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