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  1. #51
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneiderlein View Post

    nacra533, did you ever get any testing results for these?
    First... Wow, didn't expect to see this revisited.

    Schneiderlein ..Sorry, did not ever get test results. I gave several to a guy to destruct, he sold his share of the business and did not test them. I feel comfortable with their strength, your results may vary. 7/64 is getting pretty small from a chafe factor. I would feel better with 1/8". Also, I like the lanyard knot for the reasons below, but for safety if hanging from it, I would trust an Ashley stopper or proven stopper more.

    To all, I appologize for forgetting about posting the pics in the whoopie sling thread. Been gone all weekend. Will try to comment on the few questions that weren't answered by others.

    The reason I chose a lanyard knot, which is I think 2 carrick bends, is because I wanted to be able to trim the tails flush and have a "ball" at the end. The ones in the magazine had a ball end and I wanted to copy it. I was using spectra and vectran at the time. Spectra doesn't melt easily, but it does. Vectran doesn't melt with a butane lighter, so I needed a way to keep a clean look without all the tails unravelling. Most stoppers need some amount of tail to prevent capsizing and failure. Any bulky stopper knot would work. I used the Ashley stopper knot for a while when I was "developing/copying" these.

    The lanyard knot takes a little practice and patience to work the knot tight and keep the leg lengths correct. It's not hard, just finicky.

    This looks like it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_knot

    I make mine small, because they replace small clevis shackles on a boat. A finished length of 6-8" works well. Smaller gets hard to tie and I never had a reason to make them longer.

    I played around a lot with 1)leaving 2 legs separate and tieing a stopper, 2) splicing the two legs back together and tieing a stopper a single line using an Ashely stopper or similar, and 3) splicing the 2 legs back together, then separating them again to tie the lanyard knot. I like the looks of the two legs spliced together, but it is more work.

    Others have mentioned already. This came out shortly before the spectra, ucr, single line suspension development that TeeDee, Frawg, ZA206, and some others started working on simultaneously, so not many people were keeping up with "knot tying". I think these 2 ultimately led to the Whoopie Sling as we know it. I still consider myself a Nub, but there have been a lot of folks join HF since I posted this originally.

    My thoughts are these are easy and cool looking. I like to splice the tails back together because I like splicing line and it makes them look better and tougher to build. That way if anyone ever says make me one, I can put a high price on it like the suppliers do.


    Read the wikipedia on carrick bend about strength and capsizing.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrick_bend
    The fully interwoven diagonal Carrick bend is the most secure variation. All other forms are inferior[3] and not recommended as bends.[1]
    Although the Carrick bend has a reputation for strength, some tests have shown it to be as weak as 65% efficiency.[1]
    Last edited by nacra533; 03-22-2010 at 21:02. Reason: added strength info

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by nacra533 View Post
    First... Wow, didn't expect to see this revisited.

    Schneiderlein ..Sorry, did not ever get test results. I gave several to a guy to destruct, he sold his share of the business and did not test them. I feel comfortable with their strength, your results may vary. 7/64 is getting pretty small from a chafe factor. I would feel better with 1/8". Also, I like the lanyard knot for the reasons below, but for safety if hanging from it, I would trust an Ashley stopper or proven stopper more.
    I will hopefully get some tensile tests done on these before the end of the week.

    I have made a bunch of them, and the lanyard knot seems the way to go right now, but we'll see what the MTS machine has to say about that. My gut feel is that the Ashley stopper knot will slip and the lanyard/diamond knot will not. I have made a few different versions with the lanyard knot that have different sized eyes when loaded to test whether the stopper will slip through if you don't keep the legs balanced.

    Thank you for posting this great thread! Next time you come up with a great idea, put a marketing spin on it and make the heading "Sub 3g carabiner!!!" instead of "Loop shackles".

  3. #53
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneiderlein View Post

    Thank you for posting this great thread! Next time you come up with a great idea, put a marketing spin on it and make the heading "Sub 3g carabiner!!!" instead of "Loop shackles".
    I have lots of tricks for rigging and tidying up lines on a boat. Unfortunately, I can't find any hammock or camping use for them OR something less expensive and less complex already exists (like a carabiner). I rarely think to add complexity or expense to save ounces or grams.

    A free biner from the credit union (or whatever) is small, light, free, simple and does well for hanging little things like UQs, bugnets, etc.. Who would have thought the "Nacra's Anti Gravity Carabiners" would have generated excitement. You're right, I need a better name for them.

  4. #54
    Knotty's Avatar
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    The diamond/lanyard/bosun's whistle knot is a thing of beauty. It's not as hard as it looks and end result is worth the effort. Give it a try even if your not a knot person. Overhand knot is for landlubbers...oh wait...that's what we are. Never the less, try the diamond knot.

    This site has pictures and video to show the steps. http://www.itstactical.com/2010/01/0...-lanyard-knot/
    Knotty
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  5. #55
    Senior Member opie's Avatar
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    Heres one with an Ashley Stopper...





    Started with 36" of line. End result is 12" from the back of the knot to the tip.

    The tails... One is buried in the other and the stopper is tied in the buried section with enough of 1 tail sticking out to get a small backsplice.
    I am not a gram weenie. , But Im starting to see the merits!!!

    Kris' Splicing

    Kris on Facebook

  6. #56
    WV's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried a short bury (maybe an inch or two) instead of a pass-through to form the adjustable loop? I'm not sure if it would be stronger or more resistant to abrasion, but it might, especially with 7/64 amsteel or smaller line (dynaglide, anyone?).

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Has anyone tried a short bury (maybe an inch or two) instead of a pass-through to form the adjustable loop? I'm not sure if it would be stronger or more resistant to abrasion, but it might, especially with 7/64 amsteel or smaller line (dynaglide, anyone?).
    I haven't tried it, but I think the bury might make it hard to open the loop. The beauty of these things is that it is really easy to open them up and close them. Not quite as convenient as a biner, but close enough considering the weight savings. I think the bury might mess up that equation...

  8. #58
    WV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Has anyone tried a short bury (maybe an inch or two) instead of a pass-through to form the adjustable loop? I'm not sure if it would be stronger or more resistant to abrasion, but it might, especially with 7/64 amsteel or smaller line (dynaglide, anyone?).
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneiderlein View Post
    I haven't tried it, but I think the bury might make it hard to open the loop. The beauty of these things is that it is really easy to open them up and close them. Not quite as convenient as a biner, but close enough considering the weight savings. I think the bury might mess up that equation...
    Probably so. Thanks.

  9. #59
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Has anyone tried a short bury (maybe an inch or two) instead of a pass-through to form the adjustable loop? I'm not sure if it would be stronger or more resistant to abrasion, but it might, especially with 7/64 amsteel or smaller line (dynaglide, anyone?).

    This loop shackle, or whatever fancy name someone wants to give it, works for med-high loads, not sure about critical, life situations. It works when the load is applied (and the legs are balanced) the eye closes where the knot can not escape. This works because of the limited resistance to the legs equalizing.

    If you tried a short bury, when load was applied, you would create resistance to the legs equalizing and possibly leave the eye open enough for the knot to slip through. For the same reason as the longer bury or in a whoopie sling or straight bury splice locks it. So..IF you bury it a little and make sure you slide the eye closed intentionally, and made sure the legs were balanced, YES, it will work and be fairly secure. (see whipping tip below). You may have trouble releasing it if it is small. You might have to milk it to release it.

    But if we take your thoughts couple steps further...I'll add a few tips I mentioned in a previous post.

    Here are some other options (mainly for connecting 2 lines)
    -1)The ole' "big knot in a loop" works well for holding light weight things (that don't bleed) in place , especially with bungee loop. Form an fixed eye, not too small. Put a separate knot in the eye it and load it. The eye closes and pinches the line the knot is in.
    -2)Form a fixed eye. Whip the eye using whipping twine a little too big for the line. Whip it a little loose so the whipping will slide and make the eye smaller. Put a stopper knot in the eye and slide the whipping to close the eye. I use this a lot. Again, this is for things that don't bleed.


    Lastly, recommended loading for the loop shackles is with the eye/knot in the "center" and the loads on the ends. For example, if you look at Opie's first picture in post 55 of this thread. The loading/pull should be on the left and right, with the knot in the center.
    Last edited by nacra533; 03-22-2010 at 23:16.

  10. #60
    lonetracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Has anyone tried a short bury (maybe an inch or two) instead of a pass-through to form the adjustable loop? I'm not sure if it would be stronger or more resistant to abrasion, but it might, especially with 7/64 amsteel or smaller line (dynaglide, anyone?).
    i tied one like that.it worked but is hard to tie perfectly so when its cinched up the two legs are the same size.i am not much of a knot tyer though.it does work but as schneider said takes longer to get the loop loose.

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