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  1. #1
    pinballwizard's Avatar
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    Package sales seem problematic

    This may be an issue that has already been addressed, (and perhaps this is not even an issue for others), but it seems that gear sold in packages is always problematic. I am not talking about a thread with multiple items sold individually, but rather when a bunch of gear is named with a group price only. The reason this doesn't seem to work is it seems the gear is almost never sold as a group, but rather broken up eventually anyway. However, before that time, people try to claim items IF the items are not sold as a group. This is where it always seems to get confusing and problematic. I always see "I'll take it if willing to sell uq on it's own." By the time the items are broken up, someone that had a first claim is not the end buyer, due to confusion and pricing questions and other confusing complications.

    I don't know what the protocol is for this, or even if I am speaking out of turn and let this be an issue for the mods, but I propose to not allow items to be sold as groups, to avoid issues and complications.

    With that, I know there are times that people have smaller items such as whoopies, straps, dutch gear, etc... I think that those should be allowed to sell with included shipping if buying other gear... Or ship at buyers expense if they really want that item on it's own. This way, if someone wants a bunch of the little items that do not sell on their own, they can still purchase with the shipping expense themselves, or buy bigger items to make it worth the seller's shipping costs.

    I hope this thread does not offend anyone, and I think things run very smoothly overall. This is just my opinion on what I have observed. I mention it not because I want to change anything about HF, but because I appreciate it's integrity and want to see it stay intact
    “All grown-ups were once children... but only few of them remember it.”

  2. #2

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    Yes I have seen this issue as well, however instead of not allowing package sales, it might be better to not allow any "I'll take it if..." posts in that thread and if the seller sees more demand splitting it apart than they must create a whole new thread for it. I saw this implemented by Craigthor and thought it was a great way to elevate the confusion if splitting apart was decided.
    "It’s a dangerous business, walking out one’s front door" – Gandalf

  3. #3
    pinballwizard's Avatar
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    I still think there is no call for package sales because they're almost never purchased that way anyway in the end. Perhaps a group incentiviced price can be implemented, but with all other gear still priced out on it's own. I just think it causes problems when someone shows interest first, but someone else can jump in front because it wasn't available that way....YET
    “All grown-ups were once children... but only few of them remember it.”

  4. #4
    Administrator octothorpesarus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinballwizard View Post
    I don't know what the protocol is for this, or even if I am speaking out of turn and let this be an issue for the mods, but I propose to not allow items to be sold as groups, to avoid issues and complications.

    With that, I know there are times that people have smaller items such as whoopies, straps, dutch gear, etc... I think that those should be allowed to sell with included shipping if buying other gear... Or ship at buyers expense if they really want that item on it's own. This way, if someone wants a bunch of the little items that do not sell on their own, they can still purchase with the shipping expense themselves, or buy bigger items to make it worth the seller's shipping costs.
    We appreciate feedback. Personally I agree with you that big dollar packages deals rarely sell. I also agree the sales usually end up more confusing as things are broken up but it's unlikely a "no package deal" rule will be instituted. The definition of what a "package" is just too arbitrary to write rules for and too difficult to enforce.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dev View Post
    Yes I have seen this issue as well, however instead of not allowing package sales, it might be better to not allow any "I'll take it if..." posts in that thread and if the seller sees more demand splitting it apart than they must create a whole new thread for it. I saw this implemented by Craigthor and thought it was a great way to elevate the confusion if splitting apart was decided.
    Such a rule is already in place:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammock Forums TOS
    11. "I'll take it" is the only acceptable term for getting the first chance to purchase an item. Terms like "I'll take it pending PM", or "I'll take it, but with questions" do not reserve you the first right of refusal.

  5. #5
    silentorpheus's Avatar
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    Rather than not allow package sales, it might be better and simpler to impose some additional guidelines on them. For example:

    Package sales could be allowed as usual now, but make a ruling that if the seller decides to split it up and sell items individually, they must close that thread - effectively "withdrawing" the single unit package - and start another thread with individual items and prices listed. At that time, all claims start from scratch, and it is treated as an usual for sale posting.

    This way the seller still gets to give trying to sell it as a package a go, but there is no chance of anyone wondering who might have dibs. While it may be true that the percentage of these package listings that don't eventually get split up is low, there still are some that do sell that way - so why not let people give it a try if that's the way they want to go.

    Posts in the original group package posting to the effect of "I'll take item X if you decide to split it up" or "How much for item X" would be considered off topic, and could be removed at the moderators' discretion.

    It would be similar to the rules in the For Trade forum, that restricts items listed there from being 'sold', regardless if someone offers money or not.

    At least, that's how I would do it.

  6. #6
    sargevining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by octothorpesarus View Post
    We appreciate feedback. Personally I agree with you that big dollar packages deals rarely sell. I also agree the sales usually end up more confusing as things are broken up but it's unlikely a "no package deal" rule will be instituted. The definition of a "package" is just to arbitrary too enforce.



    Such a rule is already in place:
    I will respectfully submit that this rule was muddied up somewhat last week.

    I hope all the mods are on the same page with "I'll take it" wins and not "I'll take it if...."

  7. #7
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Can't recall ever seeing a package sale actually work. It's a bit naive to think that someone wants your entire setup, as is, for $500 or whatever. I can see the buyer's motivation - he doesn't want to pay shipping charges on individual items and it's less hassle for him.

    However, selling things as a package is for the seller's convenience, not for the buyer's convenience, and that's not exactly the best way to move your gear if you're a seller. Agree with others that "I'll take it if" is not a valid "I'll take it." I don't see why the thread has to be shut down and restarted as individual items. Once the seller realizes that the items won't sell as a package (and some sellers are stubborn so it takes longer), he just posts the individual prices and then the "I'll take it" rule applies.
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  8. #8
    pinballwizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    Can't recall ever seeing a package sale actually work. It's a bit naive to think that someone wants your entire setup, as is, for $500 or whatever. I can see the buyer's motivation - he doesn't want to pay shipping charges on individual items and it's less hassle for him.

    However, selling things as a package is for the seller's convenience, not for the buyer's convenience, and that's not exactly the best way to move your gear if you're a seller. Agree with others that "I'll take it if" is not a valid "I'll take it." I don't see why the thread has to be shut down and restarted as individual items. Once the seller realizes that the items won't sell as a package (and some sellers are stubborn so it takes longer), he just posts the individual prices and then the "I'll take it" rule applies.
    The problem is that the "I'll take it if" is related to "I'll take it IF you sell this individually." And it is stated this way because they are not able to claim the item yet. The IF is not because the buyer has conditions, but because the seller does in selling the item. In fact, I think one could make an argument that package sales are against the rules, as people are unable to give a fair first claim because the sale itself is very conditional, which, as all have pointed out, these sales just don't work. If there was a percentage of sales that were actually sold this way, I would not feel so strongly on the issue. However, since in the end, pieces are always sold individually anyway, I think the initial group sale just creates a blockade for people to lay first claim to items for sale.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinballwizard View Post
    ...In fact, I think one could make an argument that package sales are against the rules, as people are unable to give a fair first claim because the sale itself is very conditional, which, as all have pointed out, these sales just don't work. If there was a percentage of sales that were actually sold this way, I would not feel so strongly on the issue. However, since in the end, pieces are always sold individually anyway, I think the initial group sale just creates a blockade for people to lay first claim to items for sale.
    This is simply not true. A person can most certainly make a fair first claim by posting "I'll take it" to the package as offered.

    It's the buyers trying to break up the package that muddies the water.

    FWIW...Here's a recent package deal that sold in just over 24 hours...https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...oudburst-combo

  10. #10
    Administrator octothorpesarus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargevining View Post
    I will respectfully submit that this rule was muddied up somewhat last week.

    I hope all the mods are on the same page with "I'll take it" wins and not "I'll take it if...."
    Perhaps. We can't catch everything. If you notice a rule violation please use the ! icon on the lower left.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinballwizard View Post
    The problem is that the "I'll take it if" is related to "I'll take it IF you sell this individually." And it is stated this way because they are not able to claim the item yet. The IF is not because the buyer has conditions, but because the seller does in selling the item. In fact, I think one could make an argument that package sales are against the rules, as people are unable to give a fair first claim because the sale itself is very conditional, which, as all have pointed out, these sales just don't work. If there was a percentage of sales that were actually sold this way, I would not feel so strongly on the issue. However, since in the end, pieces are always sold individually anyway, I think the initial group sale just creates a blockade for people to lay first claim to items for sale.
    The language in rule #11 is clear. "I'll take it" is the only acceptable form of claiming an item. As a buyer you don't get to walk into a car dealership and demand to purchase only the wheels off a car. Similarly as a buyer on HF you don't have the rights to demand to purchase the only the whoopie slings on a hammock sale.

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