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  1. #41
    MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Griz, on a 1:10 scale your videos are a 20! Superb doesn't approach the adjective needed to describe your work.
    Sho-me and I just watched. She's been exposed so far to webbing/carabiner suspension and line/triangle/loosed buntline hitch ((or garda/rings).
    She asks and I ask to confirm the advantages/disadvantages of UCR and Whoopie....
    I tell her that UCR and Whoopie have no knots to weeken (or compress and weaken with garda/rings).....that the UCR and Whoopie are quick to adjust....these being the positives.
    The negative is that you carry twice the length of cord needed which equals more weight....can you say double the weight of cord?
    My position as stated in another thread in the past is that for me weight is the critical issue when backpacking; I can withstand another 5 minutes dialing in the hang...for paddle camping the weight becomes moot.
    Thanks again for another incredible lesson/presentation.
    One more request....please show the link to your video your hike in the Lake District. I rave about it and Sho-me wants to see it!

  2. #42
    stormcrow's Avatar
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    didnt someone do a weight comparison to rings and buckles and whoopie slings and the UCR? I thought I remember it being pretty small...even for me and I am tend to be a gram weenie. I mean, that amsteel 7/64 is so light...

    Adam

  3. #43
    Hooch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedicineMan View Post
    One more request....please show the link to your video your hike in the Lake District. I rave about it and Sho-me wants to see it!
    You mean this one?

    "If you play a Nicleback song backwards, you'll hear messages from the devil. Even worse, if you play it forward, you'll hear Nickleback." - Dave Grohl

  4. #44
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormcrow View Post
    didnt someone do a weight comparison to rings and buckles and whoopie slings and the UCR? I thought I remember it being pretty small...even for me and I am tend to be a gram weenie. I mean, that amsteel 7/64 is so light...

    Adam
    I believe TeeDee and/or TiredFeet did a pretty comprehensive report in one of the myriad threads this discussion has hopscotched thru.
    - Frawg

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  5. #45
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedicineMan View Post
    ...
    Sho-me and I just watched. She's been exposed so far to webbing/carabiner suspension and line/triangle/loosed buntline hitch ((or garda/rings).
    She asks and I ask to confirm the advantages/disadvantages of UCR and Whoopie....
    I tell her that UCR and Whoopie have no knots to weeken (or compress and weaken with garda/rings).....that the UCR and Whoopie are quick to adjust....these being the positives.
    The negative is that you carry twice the length of cord needed which equals more weight....can you say double the weight of cord?
    Yes, you've got the + points right. The weight and bulk differences among the minimalist techniques are small (whoopie sling, UCR, slippery buntline on tri-ring, marlin spike hitch on rope to form loop).

    My own thumbnail sketch :
    length of cord that comes with a blackbird, 8' (if I remember correctly...). Of that let's say that 7' can be used to separate hammock from tree, that you need 1 ft to tie it off. For a whoopie sling that gives you 7' of extension you need 2x7 = 14', which is 6' more than the original 8' cord. Now my vectrus weighs 0.2 oz / yd, so the whoopie sling solution has 0.4 oz more cord (on one end) but no ring, for a net gain (on one end) of 0.2 oz.

    Now the cordage for a UCR constrictor is about 2' if you put eye splices at both ends, which comes out to be 0.133 oz, round that up to 0.2 oz to account for the shock cord you want pulling on the bottom of the UCR and it's a wash weight-wise with the cord+tri-ring solution. Another comparative + for the UCR over the whoopie sling is that the eye splice over the toggle doesn't move---doesn't have it. With the whoopie sling I've sometimes needed to loosen the cord up around the toggle as it as settled in among foldings of the webbing. It's not a big deal, just a detail, but a detail that is not needed with the UCR. Also, the whoopie sling sometimes falls off the toggle when I'm setting the hammock up. Just another detail, one that the UCR doesn't share.

    Conclusion of thumbnail sketch : compared with a 8' cord + 0.2oz tri-ring,
    • whoopie sling weighs 0.4 oz more overall, essentially doubles the bulk of the suspension cord
    • UCR weighs essentially the same, increases cord bulk by 25%
    • marlin spike hitch on rope with 0.2oz toggle weighs the same, same bulk


    Bulk increases need to be considered against the additional bulk of the webbing straps, i.e., the whoopie sling doesn't double the overall bulk of the suspension, more like 50%. In any case compared with the bulk of the hammock itself the extra cord in the whoopie sling and UCR is inconsequential.

    The way I'm leaning at the moment...and why....before the constriction business I sometimes carried 12' of cord each end, at least if I didn't know what the hanging conditions were going to be. I like options for broader trees, far apart. A number of times I've been able to use that cord to place hangs I could not otherwise do. To get that kind of extension with a whoopie sling adds quite a lot of cord. I'm hoping that UCRs prove to be reliable enough, and with that solution I carry a pair of toggles along so I can switch to the marlinspike on rope approach any time. Viewed this way the added weight and bulk is just that of the UCR constrictor ropes: 4', just a quarter ounce.

    Bottom line for me : constriction is a pretty cool idea and I'm having fun with it. For my desired suspension lengths the whoopie sling takes way more cord than I want to allocate to it. So I'm playing with UCRs, don't really like how finicky they've been but confidence may come with more experience. I'll always be prepared to switch immediately over to the marlinspike on rope technique because that's rock solid, and the weight and bulk cost of being prepared to do that is (a) small, and (b) well worth it to me to have the "insurance".

    One more request....please show the link to your video your hike in the Lake District. I rave about it and Sho-me wants to see it!
    Well let's not disappoint! They are in the video section of HF, and also you can always get to all my videos through www.youtube.com/ProfessorHammock

    Grizz
    Last edited by GrizzlyAdams; 08-29-2009 at 22:12.

  6. #46
    stormcrow's Avatar
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    Thanks Grizz for that comparison. I have not even tried the UCR yet but I am thihnking of giving it a go just to say I did. I am considered by some to be a gram weenie but even I am ok with an extra .4 oz...Although I think my woopie sling is shorter. I figure if I have a situation that I need to get to longer trees then I will just disassemble my sling and use the extra cordage.

    ~Stormcrow

  7. #47
    MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Hooch thanks for the link!
    Griz-thanks for the nutshell...should be a sticky for noobs deciding which was to suspend!
    and thanks to everyone for just the best hammock site.

  8. #48
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    Hey thanks Grizzly I feel better about what I was doing.
    I was just thinking What if you used the Amsteel for the tarp line and put UCR's on it to hang the hammock after the tarp went up. Amsteel's sag is minimal so the tarp and hammock sag should stay relative although the slight lowering when you get in the hammock will cause the tarp sides to go a little slack when the ground comes up ... somebody's bound to have tried it. it's raining here....

  9. #49
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikensalem View Post
    ...
    I was just thinking What if you used the Amsteel for the tarp line and put UCR's on it to hang the hammock after the tarp went up. Amsteel's sag is minimal so the tarp and hammock sag should stay relative although the slight lowering when you get in the hammock will cause the tarp sides to go a little slack when the ground comes up ... somebody's bound to have tried it. it's raining here....
    Hanging the hammock from a single line that goes from tree to tree is called a Single Line Suspension (SLS) of which there are about as many variants as there are people that hang that way.

    I don't recall anyone trying using UCRs as the attachment points for the hammock ends, but don't see why that shouldn't work. The shifts the emphasis of use from adjusting the length of the suspension (now set to some fixed length) to adjusting the position of the attachment points, i.e., setting the sag. Usually once someone has figured out what sag they like then he leaves that part alone. I can imagine someone making an SLS with the hammock connection points being a loop whose (single) end is buried in the SLS like the end of an eye-spice is buried...but there the sag is set w/o easy adjustment.

    As for connecting the tarp to this line, I think you'll find there is more drop when you climb in than you imagine, at least more drop than I read into your description <grin>, and that this approach is what the HH line of tarps use. Can be made to work it seems.

    Grizz

  10. #50
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    I don't recall anyone trying using UCRs as the attachment points for the hammock ends, but don't see why that shouldn't work. ...
    I did it with a hammock stand, as noted here; works fine.
    - Frawg

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