Don't apologize, go on...I never thought about it in those terms.Originally Posted by MacEntyre
Don't apologize, go on...I never thought about it in those terms.
Dave
"Loneliness is the poverty of self; solitude is the richness of self."~~~May Sarton
My ears are/were burning
OK at the New Years Hang two nights ago with a low of 30-32F wrapped in the SuperPod and sleeping in 3 layers I was warm but never hot. I just don't think I can get hot sleeping.
Even at the Goat Island Hang in 90 degree heat I was OK in the MacIX HammockSock with SEEP....it truly is sad what I have to carry to stay warm
Agreed the Snugfit was waaaaaaaaaay ahead of its time. Probably the most complicted UQ ever made with forgiveness in any and all directions. For the slight weight penalty Wisenber alludes to, I still don't thing there was ever a full length UQ that compares to its simply plug-and-play/no fiddle factor to get it hung right. I cannot imagine what it would entail to overstuff it now considering I have a 'feel' for the effort made in overstuffing a normal PeaPod...
But you are right in that I am now thinking how to mate my Snugfit to my SuperPod---do they even have to mate with velcro? Cannot the Snugfit simply be hung on the hammock first and then the Pea(super)Pod applied?
OldGringo---you are so right. The genius of the PeaPod is just now hitting me via BillyBob and the Traveler because NO matter where you put your feet, NO matter how you lay, you are protected.
OK having written the above, anyone interested in adding a couple ounces of 900FP to my Snugfit?
It's just one of those topics that engineering school hammered in... we did so many heat transfer problems that we ended up dreaming about thermal conductivity and heat transfer coefficients. We also did a lot calculations with mass transfer, phase change and mass & energy balances, but we'll leave the condensation issue out for now!
The two fundamental things that help you understand the physics of conductive heat transfer are the temperature difference as a driving force, and the heat conductivity of materials. The difference between the hot side temperature and the cold side temperature is what drives the heat through the material in between. Insulation materials do conduct heat, but they resist conducting heat. It takes a greater temperature difference to drive heat through them. Insulation doesn't hold heat... it just slows it down. Heat will move from the hot side to the cold side, and it cannot be stopped.
We are warm blooded, so we must lose the heat generated by metabolic activity in order to avoid overheating. Hammock insulation is just like the clothing we wear for hiking. It needs to allow just the right amount of heat loss to keep us comfortable. When we are hiking, we generate huge amounts of heat that we must lose to prevent overheating. On the other hand, when we are sleeping, we generate a much smaller amount of heat, but we still must lose some heat to maintain our preferred temperature. (Except Medicine Man... he is some kind of hybrid... warm blooded hiker and cold blooded sleeper. Remember Cat-Dog? He's Cat-Frog!)
The SnugPod is likely to be too much insulation, even just below zero Fahrenheit, which is the forecast for MN next weekend. That's why I have two Speer Top Blankets. If I overheat, I'll remove one.
I have some idea how much IX is needed, and I am confident that the sock will make it all work well. Just like the PeaPod, the sock eliminates air leaks and problems of fit. All that's left is the question of how much resistance to heat loss do I need?
No matter how confident you feel, it's still exciting! In four days, I'll be on my way north.
- MacEntyre
- MacEntyre
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
www.MollyMacGear.com
We know our MM!My ears are/were burning....
OK having written the above, anyone interested in adding a couple ounces of 900FP to my Snugfit?
I wonder if you might first just try putting an emergency blanket between the hammock body and the Snugfit.
Hacking a Snugfit looks intimidating, at least from a distance. I did see one once, I remember there being some magic stuff happening up by where you'd open it up to slip in more down.
Grizz
(alias ProfessorHammock on youtube)
OK, 75F ( or ~between 70-75?) insulation need = ~none for most folks?
So, a 30F rated Snugfit (extremely conservative rating?) gives ~ 45*F worth of protection(75-30)?
A 20F PeaPod gives ~ 55F(75-20) worth of bottom protection? ( amount of top protection varies hugely due to many factors including hammock used)
PeaPod 55 + SF 45= 100F worth of protection?( If everything is hung perfectly, with no loft compression of either and no significant gaps and IF the loft of the SF and loft of the Pod is indeed all additive in effect.
So 75 minus 100= OK at minus 25? Probably at least some loss of degrees protection in real life.
If it is only zero or +5f or 10F, and you have the above, will it be possible to arrange top layers enought to not over heat and still remain comfy on top as well?
Can't wait to see how it works for you, Mac!
To use a Snugfit with a pod, would you simply attach the SF as per normal, and then attache and wrap the pod around all of it?
Will there be room to put the SF under and one ( or even 2) top blankets on top and still close the PeaPod as much as normal?( You would have less trouble with that with a narrow hammock.)
MedMan, what is a "SuperPod"? Is this a mod you have done?
PPod closing pretty darn snug on the ends, and draping over the hammock edges into the hammock and over the hanger= priceless!
Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-02-2011 at 21:45.
That's what I'm thinking. It won't be that cold next weekend, but it could be that cold at that time of year, in that location. I think either the PeaPod or the Snugfit inside a Molly Mac Gear IX Hammock Sock will be fine at 0*F.
Yes, I believe so. It is open on top.
Yes!
No... not with a PeaPod. I velcroed my PeaPod to the edges of the hammock. It is open on top. MMan was able to close his PolarPod over his Snugfit. I believe a closed PolarPod with a Snugfit inside will take you lower than -25, but I have no way of proving that!
Speer PolarPod is wider and longer.
- MacEntyre
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
www.MollyMacGear.com
If you're a cold sleeper, it may not keep you warm to quite that low, but it's a decent ballpark to start with. Using the Winter Yeti (0F instead of the SF's 30F) and the 20F PeaPod, I'd estimate -25F with no wind would keep me warm. I think I'm a slightly cold sleeper.
“Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story
- My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
- Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB
IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER
For clarity I have a normal 30F PeaPod that has been modded with the addition of 6oz of 900FP. The down was added to all the channels EXCEPT the two channels abutting the velcro closure.
In test fitting (we don't want any down compressed right) I attached the Snugfit normally but making sure it was snugged to the bottom of the Traveler with me in it. My Snugfit is the universal-per Mac I simply used bungie to lace the universal nylon tabs (after I get in I cinch it up to waist level, via toggle button). My Peapod goes completely around the Traveler and Snugfit with no compression EXCEPT for where it drapes on each side of the hammock.....so 1/4 inch of compression maybe running down the sides of the Traveler; it is compressing due to its own weight.
I've said that the PeaPod drapes onto the occupant when in a Traveler----this is not completely true, it drapes mostly on you but there is still a small air gap. This gap is removed completely with the Winter Mamba; with a JRB No Sniveler there is still a 1-2 inch gap.
Even with the Snugfit and the SuperPod I can still get an asym lay---though not as dramatic as with something like a Blackbird. I can also keep my arms straight by my side
or cross them.
For those who use a PeaPod AND keep their head out, you know you velcro the peapod down to the back of your neck and up to your neck but there is always a little gap-Discovering that the JRB down hood mates with the velcro of the peapod makes the gap even smaller, non-existant for practical purposes on the back of the neck....on the front of the neck the Mamba is bubbling out and blocking any gaps.
I spent an hour in the system this mid-morning at 35F....there is no way I'll be able to deal with 0F even with this setup without a heat source. I was warm mind you but never near overheating.
What I need next is a tube tapered on one end, just like a hammocksock but with Insultex---reach down and pull it up and over you type of thing.
Well I did get out of the hammock today and hiked at Rock Creek Park outside of Unicoi--the sun came out, haven't seen it in a while!
Holy cow...seriously? At least you'll be strong from carrying all that extra gear to keep you warm! Hope you find something that works for you.
“Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story
- My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
- Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB
IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER
heat packs and a nalgene with boiling water (dry sack and sock) do wonders.
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