The "Fiddle Factor" Factor

[BillyBob58]

From "Fiddle Factor" thread:

Am I the only one who cant seem to get a consistent setup using a 3/4 underquilt on a HH hammock? Everytime I set up the underquilt, it takes me at least 15 min to mess with my underquilt to get it just right. I think I must have at least 10 different pull lines to adjust each time... not ranting.. just wondering if thats a normal expected situation with ya'll...

Ok, just got back inside from my first backyard hang with my new AHE Jarbridge river. 3/4 length, 42 inches wide. The temps got down to 54 and I was warm and slept well. I did, however, have a ton of problems trying to dial in the fit of the quilt. I got pretty much constant left shoulder slip. I tried to remedy with an improvised s-biner "triangle thingy" idea, clipping an s biner to the top of the quilt suspension lines, which basically moved the attachment points a little like a triangle thingy. (Thanks for the idea ducalion http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=31449). It seemed to help some, but I only had one "s" biner and one regular, so it didn't hold real well.

Ok, here are the many thoughts running through my head this morning about the problem. Looking for input.

Response:
If you want fiddle free, you need to dump these UQs and put a HHSS on your HH hammocks or whatever else it might fit!

Just kidding. Mostly anyway. But for a reason: I have seen many comments in the past about folks not liking the HHSS for- among other reasons- too much fiddle factor(aka FF). But as can be seen from quite a few posts over time, there are plenty of folks who end up having plenty of FF with their UQs, at least during the learning curve. And particularly if the UQs are not diff cut. Hence the invention of Triangle Thingies!

I used to agree with folks on the FF of the HHSS, and in fact posted about such myself. But I have changed my mind and decided ( just IMO ) that there is zero FF with the HHSS. If you put it on as directed, that's it. There is nothing to fiddle with. It either works for you or ( for some folks) it doesn't. But there is really nothing else to do. In my experience, it will fit perfectly and be positioned perfectly every time. It will just be snugly contacting your back. And once it is on, with pull outs through corresponding loops, it can't really move and get out of position. Just leave it on( put in one large stuff sack or your pack) and there again will be nothing else to do except hang your hammock and hop in. Done. Worst case, if you remove the pad and put into it's own dry sack and put the hammock/UC into skins, you just have to put the pad back on each night, like I used to do. Still no big deal and not a lot to do wrong. End pad elastics through the UC end opening to the prussicks, side hammock elastics through the the pad loops and UC opening. Done, and nothing left to adjust.

Really, the only thing there would be to fiddle with would be if you wanted to add jackets or whatever under or over the pad for for an insulation boost. Even that is not much once you have done it a few times.

The only quilt I have used that has about as little FF as my HHSS is the JRB MW4 when on my JRB BMBH. There is zero FF with that set up. But otherwise, my quilts ( as much as I love them) can slip off my shoulder (most common mishap), be too loose(even though pretty tight), slip off my feet if not adjusted perfectly, they or I can slip up and down letting air in (torso models). And if the quilt is not dif cut, add a whole new set of variables to all of the above.

Second place for least FF in my "quilt" products is the PeaPod. But still, even with it sense it is not dif cut, you better get that tightness just right for the hammock you are putting it on. Too tight will quickly compress loft and give you a cold butt. But, I can get away with a lot more of "too loose", as the whole thing is closed up on top and drapes over the hammock edges, so cold air does not come rushing in to fill the gap like it does with other quilts. Like it will if a 3/4 quilt moved up or down in the night as you move, or slips sideways. And if there is a gap, that is just an opportunity to fill the gap with some other insulation(down vest/whatever) for uber warmth.

Now don't get me wrong. I am still a big fan of my various quilts and have pretty much overcome any FF they might have, just having been through the learning curve with each of them. Each of them has at least some advantage making them competitive. Still, with the JRB exception mentioned above ( and with a close tie for the Pod coming in next), I don't think any quilt has anything over the HHSS for lack of FF. In fact, in most cases, the HHSS is the winner at least in that regard. You might not like the HHSS, but there is nothing to fiddle with.

There, I said it and I'm glad! (though I have thought this for a couple of years)

OK, "rant" over!

[NewtonGT]

haha I do agree. alot of people say the fiddle factor is crazy on the HHSS but like billybob said just keep it on your hammock and it is that easy. literaly. the only thing that I could see is the heat sheet or reflective sheet but once you lay down its good to go. and I like my SS alot. I think UQ are great but I just dont see the fiddle factor in a SS

[bcaron]

HH Hammock + AHE Potomac = Zero FF + Blissfull full coverage

Just sayin'

[BillyBob58]

HH Hammock + AHE Potomac = Zero FF + Blissfull full coverage

Just sayin'

Glad to hear it!

[WV]

I have lately and belatedly started making underquilts after several years of using only DIY insulated hammocks, so I've joined the ranks of fiddlers. I've gotten better at fiddling with UQs, but despite their advantages (they do have some), I will probably go back to insulated hammocks because I have never awakened with a cold back when using one.

[BrianWillan]

I have lately and belatedly started making underquilts after several years of using only DIY insulated hammocks, so I've joined the ranks of fiddlers. I've gotten better at fiddling with UQs, but despite their advantages (they do have some), I will probably go back to insulated hammocks because I have never awakened with a cold back when using one.

WV

For your insulated hammocks, do you have a hammock for each temperature range you typically camp in? Part of the fiddle factor with underquilts allows for the adjustment of the quilt to either vent excess heat due to the need for less insulation.

Cheers

Brian

[WV]

Brian,
Good question. No, I used the same hammocks year round and never had a problem with overheating, but summer nights are relatively cool here, and I sleep cold anyway. Now, as my collection of hammock prototypes grows I have some that are warmer than others, so I guess they are becoming my "winter hammocks". This summer I've been experimenting with underquilts because the weather permits it. I guess the optimum for me would be having a 3-season hammock that could be made warmer with a hammock sock. Having said that, I'll still probably make a lightweight "summer hammock" some day.

[WV]

Additional thoughts - maybe one reason I've been able to make insulated hammocks work over a range of temperatures is that I pay a lot of attention to campsite selection. On a warm night I'm more likely to hang in the cool breeze flowing down the bottom of a hollow. In cooler weather I'll be halfway up an East slope, out of the wind. It's a different kind of fiddling.

[BillyBob58]

Additional thoughts - maybe one reason I've been able to make insulated hammocks work over a range of temperatures is that I pay a lot of attention to campsite selection. On a warm night I'm more likely to hang in the cool breeze flowing down the bottom of a hollow. In cooler weather I'll be halfway up an East slope, out of the wind. It's a different kind of fiddling.

Interesting on the insulated hammock concept! That is truly something we have not heard much about around here over the years. I can see it could def have some advantages!

With the HHSS, assuming the temps are not just plain too cold for the amount of insulation I have in there to start with, I also have never woke up with a cold spot anywhere. Assuming it is hooked up as directed to start with, It is not going to slip off a shoulder or up or down, a'int gonna happen. For that matter, I have used it without even hooking up the side guy out hammock linesd through the pad loops, and just let it curve up around me more thoroughly. Still no problem with put. Though I did need to reach out through the bottom (before I cut the net off) and give it a push to the left after I got in. But that pad is grippy, and mine always stayed put after that.

Now, I do use the much wider #2 pad, that may make a difference. Also, all of that is assuming it works for you in the 1st place, otherwise who cares? And admittedly this system does not work for every one for sure. Always worked good for me though, within it's temp range. And about as little fiddle factor as anything I have ever used.

[ewok]

BillyBob, have you ever tried a layer or two of IX inside your SS to augment your insulation? I have a SS and have wondered if that would work to increase the temp range.

ETA: 100th post Whooo Buddy!!