Supershelter @ -27F

[neo]

you are hardcore dudeneo

[animalcontrol]

I was at 47.2 lbs on day 1, and about 51 lbs day 2 with the added fleece liner and down bag. Shug was a few pounds lighter than I was, I'm sure he'll mention it in his video.

Sure I worry about both pack weight and volume. I'm using a High Sierra Long Trail 90:

Photo Shug took is here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9386991...7612560883800/

I don't think I could have carried much more bulk, though a few more pounds would not have been a problem.

Shug was using a pulk sled to minimize carried weight and bulk, and we'll hear about that in his trip video. He carried my Primaloft parka in his sled, so even with everything I had loaded up I had overflow.

--Kurt

Thanks for the pic...I like the way you strapped the bags to the bottom of your pack...

[moski]

Well done both of you!
-27F is **** cold.
I have 25F here at the moment, should have around 5F.
Coldest so far this winter is 5F (Yes , hanged )
**** warm weather
I don't think i ever said that, before this winter.

As I mentioned in another post I'm testing an insulated Platy for BGT. I didn't keep it from freezing up after the first night
--Kurt

I used a Source fully insulated bag and hose in 17.6F.
(The Swedish army is supposed to use the same)
The bag was alright, it just laid open on some gear through the night.
It had some ice in it next morning, but ok.
But the hose was a joke, it was totally frozen after 10 min on the trail

Thanks for a nice report!

[BillyBob58]

BillyBob,

I think staying warm at those temperatures means what he had didn't have any issues with air gaps. I suspect he had enough insulation between the bottom silnylon to fill it all in with only slight compression. Not enough compression to cause him to get cold. I thought he was using an Exped Multimat which I think is a fairly flexible piece of very thin closed cell foam pad that has nylon attached to one side.................

Hi YB,
Yes, I fully agree that that he obviously didn't have any issues with air gaps, as he was plenty warm at -27. Whatever he is doing is working, and has launched him to apparent SS world champ. ( I think he probably could have gone even further down in temps).

And he is using an Exped MM, not against his back, but down in the UC. Where it should normally cause problems according to official, accepted SS theory. I was just trying to get an understanding of why he has gone that route to start with. But whatever made him go this route to start with, Kurt did reply that my theory on why it is working may be correct. That is, whatever gap he is causing is being more than adequately filled by whatever insulation he is putting down there. And it appears that, as long as you have something to fill the space, the gap is in this case an advantage as it prevents most of the partial compression of insulation that would be caused
by the normal tension of the SS UC's elastics.

Very interesting approach. Particularly if you already have a SS and want to get the max out of it, rather than making new purchases. Or, just for the plain old challenge!

Here is another question:

Night one, -5F: in my Undercover, in addition to standard space blanket, did my typical cold-weather configuration of Exped Multimat on the bottom, and a down jacket under my back in between the OCF and Multimat..............

Night two, -27F: added my down +30F REI Sahara down bag between Multimat and OCF in the UC.
Bag: added fleece bag liner, and Primaloft parka thrown over legs

So was the down jacket AND the 30* bag down in the UC for night 2? I was impresed if a 30*F bag, even top plus bottom loft, would hack it on the bottom ( where it is just so extra cold feeling and windy anyway) at -27*F! So I figured you also used your down jacket?

Being inspired by you, I have been playing around putting my WBUQ ( CS) in there! Once I placed a 15*F bag in there. It weighed 3 lbs, so I had to put extra tension on the UC to avoid a tremendous gap. But boy was it warm!

[2Trees]

Hey Kurt,
Great review! -27*F???? BRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

I have done some minus temps in my HH ULBA with Super Shelter. I would set up the SS with the OC foam pad in between the undercover and bottom of the hammock, as normal. I would also put my ski jacket and pants underneath my sleeping bag as a cold barrier. I also used a Cabelas -40*F goose down mummy bag, too.

Recently, I've created a Custom HH Super Shelter.
You can read the reviews here...
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=6555

The only other thought is having the #2 bugnet zipper mod done on your HH. This would now allow you to use a PeaPod with your HH. You could use a PeaPod, your +30*F sleeping bag, and the undercover and overcover (don't need the SS foam pad) to stay very warm in minus temps.
I have tried this out and it works great and pleny warm. I can put the PeaPod underneath the undercover and overcover. Some light condensation, but mostly on the top of the overcover. Just a thought for you instead of carrying foam pads or downmats.

Also, if your interested, Cabelas has the XPG -40*F Expedition Goose Down mummy bag ON SALE right now. A very good deal for this bag and just as nice as a TNF or Feathered Friends. I highly recommend this goose down bag!! Check it out at...
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...equestid=59712
This Cabelas goose down bag compresses very small. To help keep my pack weight down, I use an XL Sea to Summit SN240 Silnylon compression bag, instead of the stock compression bag. FYI.

The more camping you do in freezing, sub zero weather, the easier it will seem each time you go. You will also be able to see what works and what doesn't. It will allow you to revise your gear, until you find what comfortably works for you.

Congrats on your trip!

[Youngblood]

And he is using an Exped MM, not against his back, but down in the UC. Where it should normally cause problems according to official, accepted SS theory. I was just trying to get an understanding of why he has gone that route to start with. But whatever made him go this route to start with, Kurt did reply that my theory on why it is working may be correct. That is, whatever gap he is causing is being more than adequately filled by whatever insulation he is putting down there. And it appears that, as long as you have something to fill the space, the gap is in this case an advantage as it prevents most of the partial compression of insulation that would be caused
by the normal tension of the SS UC's elastics.

I agree with you BillyBob, I would have thought the pad would do better laying directly on it, but you never know because it is an insulated vapor barrier and I wouldn't be surprised if multiple (insulated) vapor barriers in or around breathable insulation changed things in ways we don't appreciate/understand (or at least I don't). I didn't know if there was some confusion about what the Multi Mat was. If it was a stiff inflatable mat or thicker and stiffer closed cell foam pad, the results might not have been the same. But since he slept at -27F, he knows more about how to do that I and I certainly don't want to challenge that temp.

[kwpapke]

So was the down jacket AND the 30* bag down in the UC for night 2? I was impresed if a 30*F bag, even top plus bottom loft, would hack it on the bottom ( where it is just so extra cold feeling and windy anyway) at -27*F! So I figured you also used your down jacket?

Yes, both the down jacket and 30* bag were between the OCF and Multimat. I figured what the heck, might as well, I carried the jacket (for breaks), might as well use it where I can. To be honest, the bag dwarfed the jacket. We're not talking a big puffy parka, we're talking a Montbell Permafrost jacket. I'd say 80% of the insulation was the bag on night 2.

--Kurt

[kwpapke]

I wouldn't be surprised if multiple (insulated) vapor barriers in or around breathable insulation changed things in ways we don't appreciate/understand (or at least I don't). I didn't know if there was some confusion about what the Multi Mat was. If it was a stiff inflatable mat or thicker and stiffer closed cell foam pad, the results might not have been the same.

There's no confusion on what the Multimat is - its a thin CCF pad.

My guess, and that's all it is a guess, is that the warmth of my under-hammock insulation had nothing to do with VB effect. More likely, the Multimat and the SB are acting as airtight barriers, and with all that down between them filling the void it just makes a pretty good insulator.

Its not just the stuff in the UC either. I had the bottom of my 0F synthetic bag under me in the hammock and a ton of fleece clothing. It all adds up.

--Kurt

[kwpapke]

Also, if your interested, Cabelas has the XPG -40*F Expedition Goose Down mummy bag ON SALE right now. A very good deal for this bag and just as nice as a TNF or Feathered Friends.

I was just looking at that this morning. Nice bag, but the Long (I'm 6' 4" tall) is still $430, too rich for my blood.

Shug and I were discussing that up on the trail. It would be really nice to have a spendy -40* bag, but how many days/year would we use it? Lots of cash for not too many nights.

--Kurt

[2Trees]

I was just looking at that this morning. Nice bag, but the Long (I'm 6' 4" tall) is still $430, too rich for my blood.

Shug and I were discussing that up on the trail. It would be really nice to have a spendy -40* bag, but how many days/year would we use it? Lots of cash for not too many nights.

--Kurt

Hey Kurt,
I agree, it's a lot of dinero.
This Cabelas XPG -40*F goose down bag is the only sleeping bag I own and use. I find that camping in the higher elevation of the Rockies, temps can get down into the 30's anyways, even during the summer. So, it does come in handy to have this bag and be prepared for the worst. In warmer weather/nights, I do find myself unzipping the bag and just laying on top of it because it does get warm. Also, the goose down does breathe and I find that it doesn't get too warm, yet it keeps you super warm in minus temps. Something to consider.
Overall, the materials and craftsmanship of this Cabelas bag are just as nice as a $750+ big name goose down bag.

Just wanted to share some thoughts with you and LOL!